Many people with disabilities can’t get their bottles and cans to a deposit-return machine – and would struggle to use it even if they could

Michael May says there’s no way he could use the new reverse-vending machines installed in shops across the city as part of the deposit-return scheme that launched last month.

“They’re not accessible from a wheelchair,” May says, sitting in his chair out front of the Lidl on Thomas Street, which has a couple of the machines just inside the front doors.

The holes in the machines where customers are supposed to insert their bottles or cans to get back the 15 cent or 25 cent deposit they paid when they bought them are about chest-high on a standing person.

“With all these things, they don’t think about people in wheelchairs,” May says, his hat pulled low on his head to protect against the cold wind.

And it’s not just wheelchair users who find the reverse-vending machines inaccessible.

Blind and vision-impaired people do too, says Kevin Kelly, head of policy, partnerships and external affairs at Vision Ireland, the new name for NCBI.

Vision Ireland “is aware from reports from a number of blind and vision impaired people that there are quite a few accessibility and usability challenges”, Kelly said by email.

The machines at the Lidl on Thomas Street, the Tesco Express down the street, and the Aldi in Ballyfermot have instructions written on them that are not offered in Braille – and they also have touch screens.

Because the deposit-return machines are not universally accessible, many disabled people, who may already be struggling financially due to medical costs, and barriers to work, are now being charged deposit fees on bottles and cans – which they are unable to recoup.

“For many disabled people this is adding to the already existing extra costs of having a disability,” said Brenda Drumm, a spokesperson for the Disability Federation of Ireland, by email. “We will be writing to the Minister in the coming days raising these concerns.”

A spokesperson for Re-turn, the deposit-return system operator, said Tuesday by email that “Re-turn is dedicated to fostering accessibility and inclusivity for all consumers”.

“We recognise that some individuals might encounter challenges at present and are working on providing solutions,” she said. “We are currently in the process of setting up an accessibility consultation group to review any issues brought to our attention.”

A spokesperson for Lidl said that “recognising the needs of its valued customers”, the company had designed its reverse vending machines to be accessible.

The Department of Environment Climate and Communications, Aldi and Tesco have not responded to queries sent Thursday about these machines’ lack of accessibility.

Getting there

The biggest challenge to using the new deposit-return scheme is getting a big bag of bottles or cans to one of the places they can be returned, says May, sitting in his chair out front of Lidl.

He’s come to Thomas Street by bus, but wouldn’t have been able to carry a bag of bottles and cans along with him, he says.

“I get my carer to return them,” May says. “If you can’t go in the front door, go in the back door, you know?”

This is not a good solution for many wheelchair users, says Irish Wheelchair Association advocacy manager Joan Carthy.

They’ll usually have very limited carer hours, Carthy said last Thursday by phone. “Those are precious hours.”

So how are people who are homebound and shop online, or who just aren’t able to carry a big bag of cans and bottles to the nearest deposit-return point, supposed to get their deposit back?

It’s an issue that Social Democrats TD Jennifer Whitmore raised in the Dáil on 7 March.

Green Party TD Ossian Smyth, Minister of State at the Department of Environment, replied that “Re-Turn is engaging with the national Meals on Wheels network to find a way to return bottles and cans to people so they can get their money back.”

The Re-turn spokesperson said that, “Along with many community organisations and charities, Re-turn has been in touch with Meals on Wheels regarding the scheme. We cannot elaborate further at this time.”

Meals on Wheels have not replied to queries sent last Thursday asking for more details.

Carthy, of the Irish Wheelchair Association, says she’s heard lots of promises to help disabled people use the inaccessible deposit-return scheme.

Shops that say their delivery drivers will pick up empty bottles and cans. Shops that say their in-store staff will help people use the reverse-vending machines if they need it.

“There’s lots of things they say are being offered that aren’t,” Carthy says.

Using the machines

Even for people who can get a bag of bottles and cans to one of the shops that has a reverse vending machine to try to get back the deposit, there are challenges.

“The machines are designed for people who are vertical, but I’m horizontal,” May said, sitting in his chair on Thomas Street. “And I’d have to have my chair sideways, not facing it.”

Lidl “engaged with the Irish Wheelchair Association (IWA) and Re-Turn to consult on accessibility at the early stages of the trial project”, the Lidl spokesperson said by email on Tuesday.

“In line with both IWA and Re-Turn guidelines, which state optimum machine height to be between 1.2m – 1.4m for wheelchair users, Lidl Ireland designed its RVMs to comply with this guidance,” they said.

Carthy, of the IWA, said by WhatsApp on Tuesday that the organisation’s Best Practice Access Guidelines do not include specifications for reverse vending machines. However, they do include specs for public access terminals, such as ATMs.

Those guidelines say that if possible there should be a “knee recess” so a person could wheel their chair in with their legs a bit under the machine’s keypad or whatever, to use it facing head-on. Or if this isn’t possible, at least a recess for footrests to slip in under the front of the machine.

The reverse vending machines at Lidl on Thomas Street do not have either of these, so a person using a wheelchair would have to use the machines sideways.

As for the height of the machines, the IWA guidelines, which include a diagram, say that “Any public access terminal should be situated no more than 1200mm above floor level with the keypad controls at a height of 900mm.”

On the machines at Lidl on Thomas Street, the bottom of the slot for inserting bottles and cans is 1420mm above the ground. At the Tesco Express down the road, the height is the same.

In terms of accessibility for people who are blind or visually impaired, the Lidl spokesperson said that “we have ensured that none of our RVMs [reverse vending machines] require users to interact with a screen to complete their container returns”.

“Once the user has finished entering their containers, the refund voucher will automatically print after approximately 20 seconds”, they said.

Monitoring and enforcement

In the Dáil, in response to Whitmore’s query, and a query from Sinn Féin TD Pauline Tully about the accessibility of the machines, Smyth said they should be accessible.

“They should not be set at a height above 1.2 m to ensure people in wheelchairs can reach them,” said Smyth, the Minister of State in the Department of the Environment.

“In terms of people who have a visual impairment, the machines should not require the use of a screen,” he said. “In other words, they should be entirely usable without having to navigate a visual interface.”

What happens if a reverse-vending machine (RVM) does not meet these guidelines, and is not accessible?

The spokesperson for Re-turn, the deposit-return system operator, said that “where an RVM cannot be operated by a person with a disability, we expect Retailers to provide customer support”.

“We recognise that this might not address the needs of all users, so we have created the accessibility consultation group to review any issues brought to our attention,” she said. The best way to raise an issue is with an email to info@re-turn.ie, she said.

“As the national infrastructure rolls out, we will also be conducting a programme of audits from which a continuous improvement programme will be defined,” she said.

The whole system should have been designed with disabled people in mind, says Carthy, of the Irish Wheelchair Association.

“There are so many guidelines out there, and still the government gets it wrong over and over and over again,” she says.

People who are blind and vision impaired “should be afforded the same opportunity as everyone else to use these machines and play their part in recycling efforts”, says Kelly, of Vision Ireland.

“Furthermore, people who are blind and vision impaired should not be financially at a loss due to inaccessible machines,” he says.

Promoting higher levels of recycling is a great goal, says Drumm, the spokesperson for the Disability Federation, but “we are concerned at the design of the scheme and its impact on disabled people, many of whom have been vocal, expressing their concerns and frustrations at the scheme”.

“For many disabled people this is adding to the already existing extra costs of having a disability,” she said.

UPDATE: This article was updated at 10.25am on 20 March 2024 to include the heights of the slots of inserting bottles and cans in the reverse vending machines at the Lidl and Tesco Express on Thomas Street.